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Episode 398 – Championing Kamigawa

There’s only one thing going on in this episode, but there is seriously a lot of it! We’re doing another Mythic Conscription, this time for a more recent example of the pendulum swinging back after a period of overpowered cards ruling Standard. So get to experience the lower power level but without the archaic design choices of the extremely old sets. Champions of Kamigawa was around the time when Wizards was starting towards the modern design philosophies that we currently know and love.

But because Kamigawa was printed during a time when we dorks were all playing together, we’ve got a LOT more to say about these rares. We’ve all got nostalgia goggles to see around, and some of them are just generally better than some stuff from older sets anyway. Let us know what you think would or wouldn’t be mythic!

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  1. Mark
    December 5, 2015 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    I love this series but I think you had mythic rarity kinda backwards this episode. I got the early release so it’s not all so fresh in my mind anymore, but 3 of the 4 hosts choosing the dragons (6 mana 5/5 fliers with death triggers) over the myojin (enormous effects, weird design, story lynchpins) using the argument that the myojin were ‘fair’ and the dragons ‘really efficient”? I feel that’s really not a way to classify mythics. The first mythic rarity creature cycle in Shards were all big creatures with quirky abilities that cost a bunch to cast, the myojin fit right in.

    Also I feel like you guys didn’t use the ‘was this mythic back THEN’ way of thinking enough and mostly focusing on what would be acceptable as a mythic right NOW power wise.

    There are more examples throughout the episode, nezumi shortfang only because he’s the best of the flippers, not azusa for some crazy reason because she doesn’t also search up lands and is an 8/8 for three, and so on. There were some ‘correct’ choices as well though, like konda and tatsumasa, but for some reason this episode’s choices were more weird to me than any other so far. Maybe that’s because Kamigawa was my first real full block and I’ve probably cultivated some strong opinions on those cards through the years.

    Anyway, keep up the series! Even though I didn’t agree a lot this time it was still fun!

    • December 6, 2015 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

      To be totally honest, I don’t think we completely understand how our own game is supposed to work. We flip back and forth a lot on whether we’re evaluating cards based on what seems mythic now versus what would have been mythic at the time.

      What makes it more confusing is that Wizards of the Coast didn’t understand it either in the beginning. You mention the first round of mythics being mostly big wacky Timmy cards, but that trend didn’t last very long. Zendikar block had a bunch of serious tournament-level cards at mythic, and I know many people felt WotC was throwing off mixed signals for what the rarity was supposed to be for.

      I think what we’re trying to do for the most part is to say “if the designers and developers had the current understanding of mythics back then, what cards would they have thought were worth calling mythic?” Maybe. We aren’t very consistent. =P

      • Mark
        December 9, 2015 at 6:41 am | Permalink

        Yeah I agree and understand that. Alongside my opinions in the parent post I also think that it’s even more important that these episodes do not get bogged down in a mire of rules and agreements regarding mythic rares trying to figure out the perfect answer for each set and by doing that lose the fun freeflow chemistry you guys have in casual conversation, so take it with a grain of salt I suppose.

      • Greg (MadStorkMSU)
        December 11, 2015 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

        As you mention, Wizards’ definition of Mythics has really changed over the years. Though the last 2 sets have fit fairly well with the original planeswalkers-or-epic-spells-but-not-necessarily-tournament-staples, cards like Deathmist Raptor and Monastery Mentor from Khans block seem to violate that rule. However, Wizards’ main driver is money, and there is a ton of money in tournament staple mythics. As such, the nature of the mythic rare is evolving. As originally introduced by Wizards, the mythic rarity would not include cards like Gifts Ungiven, but it probably would now.

        It’s a difficult balancing act between maximizing profit and maintaining the long-term viability of the game. If all tournament staples (or god-forbid dual-type lands) move to the mythic rarity, the short term profits may rise, but players would leave standard in droves. I don’t envy those making these kinds of decisions.

  2. Bosco
    December 5, 2015 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Rules question: If you have both Horobi and Ink-Treader Nephilim on the field at once and any instant or sorcery targets Ink-Treader, can you use that to wrath the board? Do the triggers stack right?

    • December 6, 2015 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

      Yes, that works. Horobi and Ink-Treader trigger at the same time, but it doesn’t matter what order the triggers resolve. If Ink-Treader’s trigger resolves first, then obviously Horobi will trigger again for each of the created copies. If Horobi’s trigger resolves first and kills Ink-Treader then the rules about exactly what “targets only (thing)” means will still allow the copies to be created even though Ink-Treader is dead as its own trigger resolves.

One Trackback

  1. By Episode 404 – What Does It Mean To Be Mythic? on January 31, 2016 at 9:15 am

    […] Episode 398 (the one that kicked off this discussion) – http://themanapool.com/podcast/episode-398/ The first introduction of mythic rarity […]

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