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Episode 231 – How Many Years Has It Been?

Chaotic Aether

Being that this is a casual-centric Magic podcast, we don’t venture much into the world of competitive sanctioned Magic.  But when we do, we spend a LOT of time talking about it on the next show!  That is this show.  In case you haven’t heard, Mike, Brian, and Chewie went to a Standard PTQ last week.  Why might you have heard?  Well, that would be because Chewie ended up making Top 8!  Of course, we have to spend a good amount of time talking about that, because it’s not something that happens every day, you know?

Chewie’s PTQ Tournament Report:

Oh yeah, and there’s this weird little thing called Planechase that has been making the preview circuit lately.  We’re going to talk about all the cards and planes and phenomena that were spoiled at the time of this recording.  Hope you all enjoy, and be sure to listen to the outro music.  It’s really good.

Planechase Visual Spoiler:


Intro & Outro Music – Diamond by Swift – http://www.swift-band.com
Break Music – The Chase by Giorgio Moroder from Midnight Express

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  1. May 28, 2012 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    “The Chase” is used as the theme for “Coast to Coast AM,” a conspiracy radio show I used to listen to in high school! I haven’t heard it in years. Awesomeness! Also, I love ninjas. We need a Pirates VS. Ninjas dual decks.

  2. Elliott
    May 31, 2012 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Giorgio Moroder is absolutely awesome. Not only was he a pioneer of electronic dance music, but he found a way to make disco tolerable. Think about that for a minute. “Chase” is a disco song. And it’s awesome. That’s how much of a badass Moroder is. He also produced some kickass tracks and albums for other artists. Good on you for playing that song!

    Also, the eruption of whatever that was when you read Chaotic Aether was pretty great.

  3. Myke Okuhara
    June 1, 2012 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    Thank goodness for TheJaceKid’s thread; Wizards has made it harder than usual to find the spoiled cards for Planechase for some reason, I guess because they’re still promoting Avacyn Restored.

    I don’t play Planechase, but this Green-White aura theme seems too good to pass up, what with one of my favorite decks being Green-White auras. Elderwood Scion enchanted by two armadillo cloaks, two rancors and two ancestral masks (that’ll cost two less!) are not out of the question with this deck. Hopefully the singles prices are not too outrageous.

  4. Gil
    June 6, 2012 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    Just wanted to point out a small snafu in your explanation of the Ninjutsu mechanic; someone said it can’t be used until after the Declare Blockers step, which is incorrect. Ninjutsu can be used at any point after a creature has been declared as an attacker. It’s rare that this actually matters, but back in Kamigawa Block limited it was not uncommon to swap ninjas before blocking if you had a specific one you wanted to connect with and the opponent couldn’t block all your attackers.

    • June 7, 2012 at 6:30 am | Permalink

      An attacking creature doesn’t get the “blocked” or “unblocked” label until after blockers are declared. The rules about this were the same at the time Betrayers of Kamigawa was printed, so the trick you’re describing was a misplay.

      • Gil
        June 8, 2012 at 1:44 am | Permalink

        Hmm, that certainly makes sense. It definitely worked that way on MTGO at the time, but I know how that goes. And actually, I just found it in the Comp Rules, 509.1h. I would assume it’s been corrected on MTGO by now. Now, prior to BoK, “unblocked” did just mean an attacking creature that hasn’t been assigned blockers, regardless of which point in the Combat Phase it was, right? Can’t remember if this has ever actually mattered on anything besides ninjas. Having played for nearly 18 years, rules timelines get a little wonky for me 😛

        • June 8, 2012 at 7:12 am | Permalink

          I don’t have access to older CR copies, but the entry for Ninjutsu in the BoK FAQ (it hasn’t been edited since it was posted) describes the times you’re allowed to activate it, and they’re all after blockers are declared. MtGO has always had its share of bugs here and there, so weird interactions you see there need to be checked against the CR to determine whether they would work like that in real life.

        • June 8, 2012 at 8:18 am | Permalink

          I did some looking around on magiccards.info because you can search by printed text, and except for a small handful of earlier cards (Forcefield, Melee, Veteran Bodyguard) “unblocked” isn’t used as a word until after the 5E/Mirage rules update. A ruling note on Gossamer Chains dated 10/04/2004 specifically states “A creature is only considered an ‘unblocked creature’ if it is an attacker during combat after blockers are declared. ” On the earlier cards, the effects only matter after blockers are declared anyway, so though that could suggest “unblocked” still meant the same thing, it isn’t 100% definitive. “Saboteur” creatures from the early days used the “Whenever {this guy} attacks and isn’t blocked…” so they’re no help (thanks for nothing, Merchant Ship).

          • Gil
            June 11, 2012 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

            Yeah, the old-school wording of “attacks and isn’t blocked” is probably why it never registered in my brain that it wasn’t actually supposed to work that way when I did it on MTGO.

            I did notice that the ruling on Gossamer Chains you quoted is from the same month that Champions of Kamigawa came out, so its possible that these questions/rulings came about in anticipation of ninjutsu in Betrayers. And yeah, I can’t think of anything before ninjutsu where this would actually make a difference either. The couple of times I was able to do it on MTGO were pretty rare situations (see my comment below).

    • Daniel Beach
      June 9, 2012 at 11:57 am | Permalink

      Gil, I think there may be some confusion between what Brian said, how the combat phase is set up, and how combat worked during Kamigawa block.
      Brian said one can only activate Ninjitsu “after the declare blockers.” Assuming he means the Declare Blockers Step, during Kamigawa block the next event after the DB step was combat damage going on the stack at the beginning of the Combat Damage step; as the rules are now, the next event after the DB step is the dealing of combat damage.
      What Brian actually referred to was the (I apologize for what may seems like technical jargon) turn-based action of declaring blockers that occurs at the beginning of the Declare Blockers step. Part of that turn based action is the assignment of the terms “blocked” and “unblocked”. After that TBA, both during Kamigawa block and now, the active player gets priority during the Declare Blockers step.
      (Note also that declaring attackers is similar to declaring blockers. The turn-based action of declaring attackers happens at the beginning of the Declare Attackers step after which the active player gets priority during the Declare Attackers step.)

      Are you sure of when in the turn you saw people playing with ninjas in the way you describe? Could it have been ambiguous to observers, but actually played correctly?
      I’m not able to construct a scenario in my head where I would rather Ninjitsu during the Declare Attackers step, could you elaborate?

      • Gil
        June 11, 2012 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

        It was something that I myself had done on MTGO back during Kamigawa block limited, and since it was apparently a bug, has most likely been fixed.

        The best example I can think of is having a Ninja of the Deep Hours in play along with at least 1 other creature, and another ninja in your hand. If the opponent can’t block all your attacking creatures, you ninjustu out (random ninja), bouncing Deep Hours, and then ninjustu that back out after blockers were declared, bouncing one of your guys that didn’t get blocked. I distinctly remember being able to do the same thing with Ink-Eyes once.

        I’m honestly not sure how long the bug was in place, but I know it worked that way for a while after BoK came out. I ended up not playing much limited on MTGO by the time Saviors was released, and I don’t think I’ve used ninjutsu on MTGO since.

3 Trackbacks

  1. […] – Thriller by Michael Jackson (creepy voice provided by Vincent Price)This episode’s post: http://themanapool.com/podcast/episode-231 Forum thread for this episode: […]

  2. By Episode 233 – New Planechase EDH! (Live) on June 10, 2012 at 7:56 pm

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  3. […] Break Music – We can’t take breaks! We’re playing Magic!This episode’s post: http://themanapool.com/podcast/episode-233 Forum thread for this episode: […]

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