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Episode 184 – Time Travel and Room Elephants

Jace and Stoneforge - BANNEDWe are joined again here at The Mana Pool by Eric of Many Names, who can add one more name to his repetoire – Judge.  Yes, Eric went to GP: Kansas City and passed his test, so you guys get to hear all about it right here!

Then we’ve got another handful of listener mail, including one that we took extra care to answer.  It involved either moving cards from Standard back to Alpha, or bringing cards back from Alpha to the current Standard.  We weren’t sure which, so Brian took one, and the rest of us went the other way.  Either way it was an interesting discussion, hope you guys enjoy it as much as we did.

Dirk and I discussed Duels 2012 a bit, and then we had to turn to the elephant in the room.  And yes, we talked about it for a good while.  And we have lots of good discussion about it and the reasons that we either are or are not surprised by it.  Let us know what you think!

We’re talking about the Jace and Stoneforge Mystic bannings here, by the way.  Just so we’re clear.

Eric on Twitter: @thewachman


Intro Music – Diamond by Swift – http://www.swift-band.com
Break Music – No breaks, we’re on a mission!

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  1. TapThisKillThat
    June 24, 2011 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Well i don’t agree with the stoneforge banning, but the jace was OVERDUE in my opinion…Stoneforge is not that hard to get rid of….2 toughness…..there are plenty of counterspells also that can stop her too….and one more thing….most of these stoneforge decks carry only one sword…..really not that hard to get rid of artifacts in this block either…just saying….there are ways to play against stoneforge.

    Thanks for answering my questions guys 🙂

    • June 26, 2011 at 5:07 am | Permalink

      You clearly have not played standard. First of all a stoneforge on the play turn two can not be countered in standard. If you do not present removal you will get your skull bashed in (Pun totally intended).
      If you do manage to kill this ungodly creature you will have spend your resources on a card that replaces it self and pray that they don’t have another one. Jace was not that big of a problem. He felt like Flametounge Kavu, creatures needed to survive FK or they werent good enough, same with Jace (Obliterator is going to be awesome). He was the reason that the Titans were so awesome and I hope with him out of the format, we will see a change in this ‘Battlecruiser Magic’.

  2. Bagpiper
    June 24, 2011 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    These bannings are kinda late, but I think they’re a good idea.

    Jace is just far too overpowered for Standard, so there’s no issue there for me. The Stoneforge Mystic ban is more debatable, but I can see why they would want to get rid of a centralizing deck like Caw-Blade. The bit about being able to use them in the Event Deck is beyond stupid. It seems like an awfully ham-fisted way to keep that Event Deck Standard-legal, but I suppose it’s good that somebody who purchased that deck and didn’t know about the bannings could still play it, but that still seems like an isolated corner case that shouldn’t warrant a vestigial exception to the rule.

  3. Austin
    June 25, 2011 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    What Wizards has done by banning these cards is try to get players back to Standard. Standerd has the most ‘wow’ factor. And that leads to people buying cards. Which is almost always Wizard’s main goal. They are a company after all. But the ban was still good for the players.

  4. June 26, 2011 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    To matt, two things #1 don’t tell someone that the “obviously” don’t play standard because it makes you sound like prick, #2 turn 2 counter spells, let’s see how about spell pierce,deprive or mana leak?……

    • June 27, 2011 at 3:55 am | Permalink

      Thomas, I am sorry that I sounded like a prick that was not my intention, I was just emphasising how bad I thought the format was, now that I read it again it does sound kinda prickish.

      Now if you read my comment again I said a turn 2 stoneforge on the play is uncounterable, Spell Pierce targets non-creature, Deprieve and Mana Leak costs two and there is no way to have 2 mana untapped on the first turn, So… Yeah. She is uncounterable on turn two from the play in standard (Except if you use cornercases like Chancellor of the Annex and whatnot.)

      • TapThisKillThat
        June 27, 2011 at 9:03 am | Permalink

        Thank you for the correction 🙂 and i apologize if i seemed combative. I do agree that on the play you cannot counter her and i really have not played against enough stoneforge decks to truely understand how good she is. I do have to say that i will be playing more standard now that it will be “alittle” more fair.

  5. Samuel Sedgman
    June 27, 2011 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    I’d have to agree that Stoneforge was a much larger problem than Jace. It is a lot harder to stop the resolution of a 2 drop than a 4, especially when on the draw. Putting the equipment into play with Batterskull kinda pushed Stoneforge over the edge though. Nevertheless, both it and Jace were very problematic. I’m looking forward to seeing what kind of crazy stuff my local FNM crowd will come up with. Hopefully we won’t see a resurgence in that Narcolepsy deck people were net-decking. 😛

  6. Austin
    June 28, 2011 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    Huzza for controversy!

  7. June 30, 2011 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    Red Elemental Blast is way more awesome than Pyroblast. It just is. Does the exact same thing, has a cooler name, has a cooler picture. A Red Deck with the Elemental Blast is unstoppable. From Stasis all the way up to Nicol Bolas (the creature or the planeswalker) and Silver Overlord.

    Pyroblast sounds like something a baby would use.

    • Mike
      June 30, 2011 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

      Interestingly enough, they don’t do the exact same thing. As written, Red Elemental Blast can only target blue spells and permanents, but Pyroblast can target anything. Pyroblast only has an effect if the spell/permanent is blue when it resolves, but it still gives you a window to target something non-blue and then change the color if you’re so inclined.

      There’s a similar difference between Blue Elemental Blast and Hydroblast.

  8. July 4, 2011 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Look at your comment. Back to mine. Back to yours NOW BACK TO MINE. Sadly, it isn’t mine. But if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate crap it could LOOK like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re scrolling through comments, finding the ones that your comment could look like. Back at mine, what is it? It’s a highly effective Banning. Look again, MY COMMENT NOW HAS CHEWIES ATTENTION.

    Anything is possible when you Read the Frekin cards.

    I’m on a Laptop

    • Mike
      July 6, 2011 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

      He was trying to be funny (and succeeding, in my opinion), but I guess I ruined it by being not funny in reply…

  9. July 15, 2011 at 3:23 pm | Permalink


    In relation to Command Tower, I agree with Abe. While I understand the product is for people to play Commander, there are still plenty of us out there who play other forms of multiplayer Magic. Why make a card that excludes a large group of casual players who, otherwise, would love this product?

    I went into far greater detail in my article, http://musevessel.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/windborn-musings-the-problem-with-command-tower/

    Thanks again for the podcast. You guys are always a joy to listen to on my ride home from work.

    • Poisoned Fly
      July 16, 2011 at 4:52 am | Permalink

      I can understand people’s frustration at Command Tower not being playable in other formats (my primary format is 60-card casual chaos magic), but I have no problems with the design of Command Tower. I would compare it to the printing of a card such as Mental Misstep, whose primary audience is legacy (and possibly vintage?) players, not standard or any other format. Granted, it is playable in other formats, but it is much less effective in other formats as this cards was designed to do a specific job in a specific format. Command Tower is one card out of a vast number of new cards created specifically for a format that is almost completely useless elsewhere, but in trade off we get a very elegant way of creating a powerful land for Commander, without a ridiculous price spike due to potential in other formats.

      After writing the above I read the Windborn Muse’s above article, and respectfully I disagree with most of the points he makes in the article. I will not go in to it here as this post has dragged on long enough.

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